Gorean Roleplay > Gorean Roleplay General Discussions

Honor, respect and acceptance are earned commodities

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Gioco_Di_Ruolo:
First let me say this to clear this point of contention up. “Real” Goreans don’t exist. They are in the pages of the books. Yeah that’s right, you heard me; they don’t exist. Now that being said, Goreans do exist, call them “living” Goreans, “philosophical” Goreans or whatever term you fancy, those persons that identify and attempt to apply the Gorean philosophies and morality to their real lives might indeed be seen as or called Goreans. Real is a term we’ll leave out of this; it’s to limiting in it’s scope.

There are many here who tend to speak in a manner that I would not consider to be " honorable ". However " honor " is said to be one of the main ingredients that goes into the constitution of a " Gorean ". " Honor " as most often displayed in other Forums holds an unknown definition for myself as I read many people who have spoken there, so it seems.

 "Honor has many voices, and many songs." Witness of Gor, p.548.

I know much has been spoken of there in forum on " Honor " as is " Honor " spoken of among many circles on Mother Earth. It seems that the core of " Honor " as I see " Honor " is not how many define " honor " who claim to be the " Goreans " here and  in other Forums.
 
In all honesty I do not agree with the rude manners that are often displayed there in Forum and then excused as some form of acceptable " Honorable " conduct which is defended rigorously by words of ridicule and contention to enforce being a " Goreans ".
 
However I am a man that holds no judgment of others which would make one person better than another by nature. I cannot ever succumb to a value that would make myself or another appear to be " elite " or " higher " in status or " caste ". I do not care to ever learn how to divide the waters which could instead be used to build bridges to connect and find common ground with those of other ways of living.
 
I must admit though I do find it rather perplexing that the term " Honor " is not as I have grown to come to willingly understand over the many years here on Mother Earth among many of those who claim " Honor " here in other Forums which claim to be the " Goreans " of other Forums.
 
Further I regrettably find the refusal of a majority to disengage from the socially unacceptable behaviors that I cannot imagine I could ever be proud of or define as " Honorable " here to be somewhat disenchanting.
 
It clearly appears that more than often-times those who refuse to be harsh, rude and abrasive most often are scorned by those who claim to be the " Goreans " as " they " understand what defines a " Goreans ".
 
I share in and teach the following as ingredients which work toward the whole outcome of a working definition which I can live by when claiming to live as a man of " Honor ":

1) Honorable = The act, process or state of being justified by becoming willing to live in
accordance to truth and integrity.

2) Responsibility = An act or instance of purifying or being purified, to clear from material defilement
or imperfection, to grow or become pure or clean in thought, word and deed through becoming willing to practice honesty with all.


3) Accountability = The act, process or state of being freed from character defects, to give conscientious or social support to oneself and others who willingly choose to abstain from destructive behaviors.

 
A few questions continue to come forth as I have read the many postings here and else where I encounter the questionable conduct that is so readily excused as acceptable status quo among " Goreans " or “Gorean Role Players” in other Forums.
 
1} What is this unspoken defining factor in determining if a man is a " Goreans " or “Gorean Role Players”  by which a man is measured here in this Forum ?
 
2} If a man does not place his devotion to live " Honorably " and put loving his " neighbor " as himself first in all he does above all else what then and how can a man claim to be a man of creditability and trustworthiness?
 
A few random aloud thoughts that hopefully do not stir the fires of a cauldron which does not warm the Winds with more than what is required to demonstrate balance among strangers of shores unknown of Honor, as I have come to embrace.
 
So let me begin by saying honor, honor, mother fuckin’ honor. That word gets thrown around on Gorean “talk radio” sites like this one and others with the same redundancy as the words “unjust war” do at a Democratic campaign rally. I myself have and or at least had a hang up over the word honor at one time; I still find it a very important, but I recently created a thread and responded to a thread from a while back. It had to do with honor or the misconception of this word.

Honor is a relative term, it is a shared concept, it is a term that is no different than the lock on your garage door; you know, that lock that helps to keep an honest man honest. A thief that really wants your shit could give a damn about that lock. And that honor that you so dearly cherish is of no importance to a man that stands in opposition to you, honor is no different.

Honor is a watch word among friends and neighbors; countrymen and caste. It has significance to a man that has need for it and none to a man that has not. Each man might in fact have an altogether separate view of the word honor, at least for its practical application and usage. Each caste or culture might indeed find various needs in defining the word, in conceiving its purpose. I think it’s a word with valuing, but seldom worth fussing over its employment.

I would rather think judging by our bitching that it is the word accountability that they are having the most difficulty with. Doesn’t it seem that folks think they can do just any ole thing on a site like this and get away with it, that their actions can be rude and shiftless that they can make fun of you and you are left with no real recourse? They want people to accept things the way they see them and they think common courtesy is a universal provision or at least should be.

The fact is there is a reason that the Gorean word for stranger and enemy are the same. It’s the philosophy within human nature. We aren’t all the same and never will be. We won’t all always like each other and that’s just the way it goes. Have you ever wondered why Norman never told us what this word was? As if he might have wanted us to look beyond the word itself and into its metaphorical representation, in other words the philosophical significance of this symbolic reference.
Honor, respect and acceptance are earned commodities; seldom if ever are they truly offered of free will, even you with your Mother Earth ways are having trouble accepting someone that doesn’t fit your idea of what is socially acceptable. You preach tolerance and acceptance, but your actions are not demonstrating as much. But fret not, it’s a societal corruption spawned buy our western puritanical culture.

Thanks for wading the waters which are calm yet deep. I will rest now and listen to the quietude.

RAGNAR:
I will reply as simply as I can being a simple man.

Our earth is a mess. Of that there is no doubt.

The same can be said about our Gor as well, but Gor being as it is, can be sustained due to its various areas and venues on line.

Though Gor is an even more strict and structured society than we have by earth standards, it allows more freedom to all than our earth standards do.

It is less political and more of a "might makes right" society.

Having said that... now we have to look at the "might makes right" aspect and who it is and why they must remain vigil to maintain a balance.

Only a boob would do things simply because they can... or think they can. On Gor Men have reasons for doing what they do. It is the way they are raised.... the way they are trained... the waythey live. They are usually direct in what they do. They set specific goals and work towards them be it seeking a companion, seeking a slave, waging war, even tilling a field, planting, and harvest. Each thing a Man does has a reason. A Gorean Man would be decisive. Granted... the wise Man would think and ponder his course and consider the possible outcome and ramifications. The "Gain vs Loss = Risk" equation. He then sets his course and persues it. He may fly by the seat of his pants to reach that goal as the forces of nature do not always match our wishes... yet he focuses on that goal and will do all he can to achieve it. There are other facets to this term, but all this falls under responsibility.

How does a Man go about maintaining his responsibility? How does he conduct himself to be responsible?

First let me say Gor means Home Stone. The name in itself sets a very significant priority.

Laws and structure are set down by the home just as they are for earth society. The acceptable standards by which that society functions. Many of these standards are the same..... and many of these are different depending on the society. Life in the United States is as different from life in China as life in Ar is from life in a Wagon Camp. Yet even in these there are similarities set down as acceptable and non acceptable standards for society.

What keeps a Man accepting of these standards.... or even operating outside of the standards?

Honor.

First.... earthen Honor and Gorean Honor can be two very different things. By Earth standards we always try to define Honor as a generality..... a classification... a mold that everything should fit into or is found to be dishonorable.

On Gor... honor is an individual thing which is extremely personal and valued. None can take it away. Only the individual can throw it away. One can dishonor a standard of society or a unit of society but one can only dishonor themselves on a personal level. One can insult another.... but it is not an insult to their honor. It is an insult to their person, and that person's own honor dictates what the result shall be.

I think in the gorean mindset honor is of course not chivalry as we know it by earth standards... but rather a personal set of ideals and principles a Man sets for himself. Some of these he will inherit from his Father and his Mother.... some from society's structure around him.... some from those he grows up with... some from his training... and even some from his own personal likes or dislikes. These are the driving forces... the motivating factors... the essence of the Man. He sets his own personal honor standards and he sticks to them. Failure is dishonoring himself.

There is personal Honor... and there is cultural Honor of the Home Stone or simply home. A man can have Honor without a Home... but no culture can have Honor without Men of Honor.

As the books were penned by a Man... there are always going to be mixed values and views. Gor is looked upon by many as being the perfect world... yet it is flawed... as it is created by one who is imperfect. And this is no disrespect intended to JN... just a simple fact. None of us are perfect. But I think to be gorean.... to think gorean... to act gorean.... one must make a box of their earthen mentality.... and then think outside the box.

Think simply in a complicated world.

Act simply when complications arise.

Place the needs of the Home above your own personal needs... and adhere to your personal codes of conduct. If you do... then you are not only acting and living honorably, you are honoring your home as well. When all in a home do this, none need to worry about themselves for there is always another watching out for you as well.

There are Taluna, Panthers, Outlaws, etc that have no home stone and operate outside of the status quo. Yet even for them to survive, they too much be responsible to something greater than themselves. They depend on one another for survival. One mistake can bring failure to their whole group. They too have their standards... their principles... the personal guiding standards for their lives..... Honor. And they apply this for their own home or group.

So this is why I feel honor is not a form fitted garmet for everyone. It is an individual thing bound together by the society.... home... in which the person lives.

What is honorable for a Scarlet in the structure of Ar may not be honorable for a Tuchuk in his structure... yet the individual Men still have honor and bind their homes together.

It is not an easy thing to describe honor..... but one can certainly feel it within himself and that is where it is measured each day.

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