Author Topic: unnecessary cruelty in gorean role play  (Read 3888 times)

Gioco_Di_Ruolo

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unnecessary cruelty in gorean role play
« on: January 23, 2008, 12:06:22 AM »
I am turned off of the cruelty of the incidents of late...   is this the new evolution of Gor??    where is this found??   and why would a human being put up with such things....how many of you know there is an X on the page.. and this is unnecessary cruelty ...  making people leave Gor...  For the most part it is women...
I  watch a RP today that a female was urinated on and beaten if this happen in real times the woman would of died... Its Gorean to PEE on a woman???((WTF)) ....that is S & M....   nothing more.. nothing less.....it has no place on Gor...  Goreans were not cruel...
 just as I said in this post http://kassardsc.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=OOC&action=display&thread=1200769724

Quote
author=GiocoDiRuolo board=OOC thread=1200769724 post=1200769724]One of the first lessons I learned in BBS Gor was of honor and respect…This is how I feel its My opinion No mater the lifestyle or form of art A Master builds within to bring outward His creations Things where said by both sides in the heat of disagreements As I feel and know Both sides are hurt….I recall words spoken to Me….Do not so quick to brandish the sword as those who care nothing for Our existence would do. You are the leader of many Men, let it be honor that leads them, it is in You learn from the Lessons taught” Spoken by a Ubar to Me”…Stops to collect My thoughts…

Looking at Gorean philosophy, the ideals that form a Man, one has to look at each and apply it to himself. he has a duty to be honest to himself, to respect his own desires, emotions, dreams, and beliefs. In all actions a Man does, he must learn control. Knowing and accepting what he is inside, so that he has the confidence within to do what he deems best for himself. Being able to understand that he could be wrong about something, and taking the responsibility for his actions. Knowing when he just can't do it all himself, and knowing how and where to seek help. Being able to learn and grow, every day, and maintaining the control of himself. Losing control shows one hasn't mastered himself. Granted, there are external factors which can cause a reaction, but how one handles the situation as it arises will show how well he has Mastered himself. This Plain of acknowledgment moves forward as he grows within himself, he can then start to debate the philosophies of Others and learn to improve his own. for none are prefect and life is about change. Without change one can not grow to meet the day. I look back on My path and chuckle at My mistakes but take from them the lessons that where taught. I try to help My brothers about Me see from My own doing or undoing a path that may be better for him in hopes that My life and acknowledgment can reach a even Plain. My foe I offer My arm to help him to reach a even Plain for there would be no honor if the fields where uneven... Just as everyone is different, expectations are different between a Master and the slave he collars. Generally, there would be some rapport between each, especially in a Gorean lifestyle relationship. I have seen others speak of things they will of the slave before them, they speak of submission, devotion, servitude, and love. When the slaves have shared, they wish to submit to a strong man, to serve with devotion in every way possible. Gorean relationships, from both points of view, seem to have some requirement of love. And from what I have seen, between discussions online, and visits offline, there is an amount of deep emotion between the Master and his slave. For me personally, I am no different in these respects. I demand the girl's absolute submission and devotion, respectful servitude, companionship and love. I will, in turn, provide the companionship, friendship, compassion, and love to my kajira, discipline when required, and always careful correction and training. Gor is harsh, but not unnecessarily cruel; neither am I. Once this Plain of acknowledgment is untainted he can achieve his goals mastering his possessions to his will his creations come full color for A/all to see, learn from or stand in awe of his works..the power of this plain is not without its respects. he must keep focused on understanding those about him and within. he then within starts on the first path on the plain of acknowledgment why repeat his steps if it is not broken why fix it! IT Works!! the powerful feeling of seeing his dreams unfold can often without avail if he strays on the Plain of acknowledgment. True control is within and comes outward influencing all in its path the processed Plain of acknowledgment based on those of ancient and modern philosophies the goal is to find your zen, find a balance in life. the road leading to the plain is long and harsh NO Man should be alone but is he can he see foot prints of those before him or is someone looking upon his. even now in my own journeys of plain acknowledgment I share with those people learning with me for I feel I am in my home
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 12:21:34 AM by Gioco_Di_Ruolo »

Offline RAGNAR

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Re: unnecessary cruelty in gorean role play
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2008, 09:18:56 AM »
I am turned off of the cruelty of the incidents of late...   is this the new evolution of Gor??    where is this found??   and why would a human being put up with such things....how many of you know there is an X on the page.. and this is unnecessary cruelty ...  making people leave Gor...  For the most part it is women...
I  watch a RP today that a female was urinated on and beaten if this happen in real times the woman would of died... Its Gorean to PEE on a woman???((WTF)) ....that is S & M....   nothing more.. nothing less.....it has no place on Gor...  Goreans were not cruel...
 just as I said in this post http://kassardsc.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=OOC&action=display&thread=1200769724

Quote
author=GiocoDiRuolo board=OOC thread=1200769724 post=1200769724]One of the first lessons I learned in BBS Gor was of honor and respect…This is how I feel its My opinion No mater the lifestyle or form of art A Master builds within to bring outward His creations Things where said by both sides in the heat of disagreements As I feel and know Both sides are hurt….I recall words spoken to Me….Do not so quick to brandish the sword as those who care nothing for Our existence would do. You are the leader of many Men, let it be honor that leads them, it is in You learn from the Lessons taught” Spoken by a Ubar to Me”…Stops to collect My thoughts…

Looking at Gorean philosophy, the ideals that form a Man, one has to look at each and apply it to himself. he has a duty to be honest to himself, to respect his own desires, emotions, dreams, and beliefs. In all actions a Man does, he must learn control. Knowing and accepting what he is inside, so that he has the confidence within to do what he deems best for himself. Being able to understand that he could be wrong about something, and taking the responsibility for his actions. Knowing when he just can't do it all himself, and knowing how and where to seek help. Being able to learn and grow, every day, and maintaining the control of himself. Losing control shows one hasn't mastered himself. Granted, there are external factors which can cause a reaction, but how one handles the situation as it arises will show how well he has Mastered himself. This Plain of acknowledgment moves forward as he grows within himself, he can then start to debate the philosophies of Others and learn to improve his own. for none are prefect and life is about change. Without change one can not grow to meet the day. I look back on My path and chuckle at My mistakes but take from them the lessons that where taught. I try to help My brothers about Me see from My own doing or undoing a path that may be better for him in hopes that My life and acknowledgment can reach a even Plain. My foe I offer My arm to help him to reach a even Plain for there would be no honor if the fields where uneven... Just as everyone is different, expectations are different between a Master and the slave he collars. Generally, there would be some rapport between each, especially in a Gorean lifestyle relationship. I have seen others speak of things they will of the slave before them, they speak of submission, devotion, servitude, and love. When the slaves have shared, they wish to submit to a strong man, to serve with devotion in every way possible. Gorean relationships, from both points of view, seem to have some requirement of love. And from what I have seen, between discussions online, and visits offline, there is an amount of deep emotion between the Master and his slave. For me personally, I am no different in these respects. I demand the girl's absolute submission and devotion, respectful servitude, companionship and love. I will, in turn, provide the companionship, friendship, compassion, and love to my kajira, discipline when required, and always careful correction and training. Gor is harsh, but not unnecessarily cruel; neither am I. Once this Plain of acknowledgment is untainted he can achieve his goals mastering his possessions to his will his creations come full color for A/all to see, learn from or stand in awe of his works..the power of this plain is not without its respects. he must keep focused on understanding those about him and within. he then within starts on the first path on the plain of acknowledgment why repeat his steps if it is not broken why fix it! IT Works!! the powerful feeling of seeing his dreams unfold can often without avail if he strays on the Plain of acknowledgment. True control is within and comes outward influencing all in its path the processed Plain of acknowledgment based on those of ancient and modern philosophies the goal is to find your zen, find a balance in life. the road leading to the plain is long and harsh NO Man should be alone but is he can he see foot prints of those before him or is someone looking upon his. even now in my own journeys of plain acknowledgment I share with those people learning with me for I feel I am in my home

I am unable to read the post on the other board and have no actual reason to sign up to do so. But since you posted here, I have a few bits to offer and ask.

Gor is in the books, in our spirits, and what we make it in the rooms in this venue. None are perfect nor will they ever blend into perfection. It is the growth and striving to do so that makes all the difference.

Yes, there is an "X" to leave a room. Many would scream of gamming, but bottom line is... if you know something is being done that is not founded even upon the least bit of information from the books or reason, go. "X" out. Hard to really be labled a gammer from a game.


Did the female in question stay for this role play? If so... then she is either misled as to what is gorean and the expectations or she was consenting. Perhaps consenting because of not wishing to be called gammer, peer pressure, etc... only she knows for certain.

What did you do to put a halt to this ungorean activity you were witness to?

Nothing makes people leave Gor. People create excuses for leaving Gor. Unless real time situations prohibit people from having online access or the ability to participate in online Gor... people will be where they wish to be.

Offline Ayelen

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Re: unnecessary cruelty in gorean role play
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2008, 04:12:11 PM »
Some homes have better Gorean principles than others.  Some understand more of what it is to be Gorean, while others just play at calling themselves Gorean.

You simply just ... sidestep ... those homes.  It's not worth the bother to try to educate them, because they are not open to education.  And it's really too bad. 

Although generally Goreans were not particularly cruel, there are those few who were, and notably so.  One such person was Surbus in Raiders of Gor, who regularly abused the tavern slaves and often known to kill them.  It is of general convention that others do not interfere in the abuse of a slave. She is, after all, just an animal.

Quote
"I had heard the name of Surbus. It was well known among the pirate captains of Port Kar, scourge of gleaming Thassa. I threw down another burning swallow of the paga. He was pirate indeed, and slaver, and murderer and thief, a cruel and worthless man, abominable, truly of Port Kar."   Raiders of Gor, page 102.

There was a girl's scream and, from the alcove into  which Surbus had dragged her, the girl, bleeding, fled among the tables, he plunging drunken after her.  "Protect me!" she cried, to anyone who would listen. But there was only laughter, and men reaching out to seize her. She ran to my table and fell to her knees before me. I saw now she was the one who had served me earlier.   "Please," she wept, her mouth bloody, "protect me." She extended her chained wrists to me.
     "No," I said.
     Then Surbus was on her, his hand in her hair, and he bent her backwards.    Raiders of Gor, pages 102-103.


The curtain from one of the alcoves was flung apart. There stood there, framed in its conical threshold, Surbus, he who was a captain of Port Kar. I looked upon him with loathing, despising him. How ugly he was, with his fierce beard, the narrow eyes, the ear gone from the right side of his face. I had heard of him, and well. I knew him to be pirate; and I knew him to be slaver, and murderer, and thief; I knew him to be a cruel and worthless man, abominable, truly of Port Kar and, as I looked upon him, the filth and rottenness, I felt nothing but disgust."   Raiders of Gor, pages 120-121.

"Surbus often," said the proprietor, "thus destroys a girl who has not pleased him."   Raiders of Gor, page 122.

However, though there was much cruelty administered to slaves, beatings, even near-death beatings and/or rapes (Doreen in Dancer of Gor came rather close after being confronted by the men she lured to the chain gangs!), I don't recall human wastes used in the humiliation of slaves.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 04:48:02 PM by Ayelen »
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Gioco_Di_Ruolo

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Re: unnecessary cruelty in gorean role play
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2008, 08:29:07 PM »
while I didn't interfear with the man... I did assist the woman when she was freed from Him...  I informed her to read the books as soon as she could so she would know what is involved...  she wasn't consenting.....  her only crime was that she was fairly new...  the problem isn't that she *allowed* this to happen... the problem is that the man was not educated enough about Gor to realize just what it is... or is not...  Surbus paid a high price for His cruelty... what is this guy paying??    just a little rhetoric thinking's...

another point is...   just who is the teacher... who the student??   I agree... when I see these types of things happening...  I do step in... and change the tide...  as I see it... according to the books...  regardless... this is still online... and these are real people behind the typing... 
being a gorean... You are part of an online Gorean Community.... You are either part of it... or not...  to be part of it... is to correct and teach what is right...  whether it be the man... for doing something unacceptable... or be the woman... for not knowing better than to leave... rather than take that type of abuse...I am gorean no matter the venue or the room or char.. it is in Me....
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 08:33:18 PM by Gioco_Di_Ruolo »

Offline maiyuri

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Re: unnecessary cruelty in gorean role play
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2008, 11:04:24 AM »
I have a question... You stated that the act was S/m only.. But what is gor but another version of s/m? Before gor there was bdsm John Norman only gave positions a name and structure. unless my thinking is wrong? If so please explain it to me. I am not saying that is was ok to bring watersports into the rp, as I see it Goreans should have more dignity than that and should preform such acts in the privacy of thier furs.. But My question is where did Norman aka Lange  get the whole idea of sexual/intellectual/domestic slavery if not from s/m?
Freedom permits a woman to live without a man. Slavery makes a woman need a mans touch... Slavery, of course, is the surest path by means of which a woman can discover her femininity. The paradox of the collar is the freedom which a woman experiences in at last finding herself, and becoming herself\

Gioco_Di_Ruolo

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Re: unnecessary cruelty in gorean role play
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2008, 04:32:47 PM »
Tal maiyuri 

Dr.Lange didn't invent the conceptions of slavery.. He did draw from conclusions of philosophies of the past
BDSM is also drawn from these primordial ideals. DR. Lange wrote these novels based largely on Our own earth past
these ideals steam from our own ancestry.. So BDSM or Gor first I will not even delve into that argument as My time is limited
 

 BDSM to Me is about ones sexual choices

Gor is about appling a set philosophy or ideals to ones life...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2008, 04:37:59 PM by Gioco_Di_Ruolo »