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Gorean Roleplay => Tuchuk Wagon Camp => MTC Discussion and Learning Center => Topic started by: Raziel on September 24, 2009, 02:43:50 PM

Title: Women's topic 9-24-09
Post by: Raziel on September 24, 2009, 02:43:50 PM

"You were not struck for such an absurd reason," I said, "You are, after all a free woman, and free women are entitled to insult, and attempt to demean and destroy men. It is one of their freedoms, unless men, of course, should decide to take it from them. You were struck rather, because you were attempting to manipulate me." She nodded, putting her head down."
Page 422 Mercenaries of Gor

The freedom a FW have varies from place to place.  Being a Gorean man, I have struck many a freewoman in camp for various reasons.  Do you feel the manipulation of a man is often times accomplished today?  And to what degree?

Raz

Title: Re: Women's topic 9-24-09
Post by: Mercilayne on September 25, 2009, 10:58:58 AM

I'm not really sure that I'm addressing this properly in the context that Raziel posted it as.  But here goes.

Personally I think to a degree that everyone manipulates everyone else, be it deliberately or subconciously.  On this, I'm not talking about having everyone do what you want and consequences be damned.  I'm talking more about turning aside an arugement or difusing a situation.  Because when you are around people all of the time, espiecally as Family, you learn how to do such things.  Maybe on a particular day you get tired of hearing two people argue so you attempt to distract or difuse their arguments.  In a way that is manipluation as well, to achieve a desired end.

As far as the more obvious, or rather, more serious parts of manipluation such as making someone do what you want even though you know it's not what they want..  I don't see that here in Camp.  Or at least I have not so far.  People here are honest, take the others as they come, and are willing to accept things as they come.  There are things said and done to ensure that that kind of manipulation does not exist, or if it does, it is dealt with quickly and in a manner that ensures it does not happen again.  Manipulation of that extent should never happen, but sadly I am sure that it does.  Anyone who knowingly does such things, deserves what it is that they get in return.


Now I know I've gotten off topic as reading it again, the post said

Quote

Do you feel the manipulation of a man is often times accomplished today?

I do not see that manipluation of such, unless it is as I had said in the first paragraph, the ones that would attempt to difuse something.  The Women here in camp are straightforward, rsepectful, and do not resort to such manipulative things as having to demean the Men around them by manipluating them.

So I guess my final answer would have to be, Yes I feel that the manipulation of a Man is accomplished today.  But it is to a very small degree.  Even though I think that it is something that all Women should try to avoid at all possible costs.

Title: Re: Women's topic 9-24-09
Post by: Melanie on September 28, 2009, 01:15:28 AM

Well geez Merci...you tellin' me my manipulations got me stuck in MTC?...if that's the case, I'll gladly pay that price...*winks teasingly*...

As for manipulation....It all depends on the eye of the beholder. Some women have the gift, and some don't. Some Men can see it, and some do not. It really is a give and take sort of situation....as manipulation is based off of something someone else wants or craves, or even already has.

Now. Where Merc is right in subtle manipulation. There's also many other forms of manipulation. Like trapping, or teasing a certain way. and downright using. etc I am guilty of all of the above, but will I ever stop? No. Will I get slapped for it? I know it, but that's the price I'm willing to pay to be the person I am in Gor. Manipulation for me is a tool, most of the time, unless warranted to be used in...other ways for other circumstances.

As for Men on html Gor....Some do, some don't...Raz, good example, does not tolerate it...and I respect as such and that's where I tone down perhaps the most. Though some people, I don't tone down at all for, because they give me the opportunity to either trap them or tease the hell outta them...and then there's some men that I use and toss away because they aren't worth my time, and my time is too precious to waste...

As far as MTC...Haven't met a man yet that can be easily manipulated, but there are some, who don't even realize it yet...ya'll are on yer toes quite well!!..Just make sure to stay there, cuz I'll strike any chance ya give me!

Mel

*Adds some more*....and feel free to give me all the punishment ya think I deserve...I can take it!!!...*LOL*

Title: Re: Women's topic 9-24-09
Post by: razz|n.o.i.r on September 28, 2009, 11:22:26 AM

Manipulation itself can happen on many levels, and for just as many reasons.

From what I can muster up. It all depends on the situation. Which would depend on the varying degree of manipulation. Could be as simple as convincing the FM to toss the FW a bota of water. All the way down to attempting to lead him around by the nose, for various reasons and ends.

depends on...
- the type of fw.
- the situation.
- the awareness of the fm.
- the skill of the fw.

Just as in r/t, and r/p. Everyone uses everyone else in this world for something. It just all depends on what they are trying to use the other for. Good reasons, or evil.

-gentle shrug-..

Title: Re: Women's topic 9-24-09
Post by: Melanie on September 28, 2009, 01:32:20 PM

You said that much better than I could Sarant...I completely agree...*nods lots*...and I promise my manipulation is never with evil intent! *adds an adjustment*...within MTC....I know better...*LOL*....

Title: Re: Women's topic 9-24-09
Post by: Taryn on October 25, 2009, 12:35:47 PM

Not sure if you want the answer to be solely for MTC, or outside of MTC. With that said, what I am about to say is what I have seen going on on Gor, through message boards, as well as things I have heard in passing by visitors and guests of our home. So my answer relates to what I believe is going on outside of MTC first, then I will share my thoughts of this question of what I see happening in MTC at times.

I do believe that there is much manipulation of men in Gor currently today, we see the women who think they can have men take them under their protection, which means they can do anything they want, and in some ways, that is what happens. If the free woman that is under the protection of a man does something to offend another man, while this free woman is not in their home, but say in the Sardar Fair, during the times it is nothing but barren land, as the Fair time has come and gone, gathering with her other free women friends to gab, gossip and just get together because they can, but I digress. They, the free woman, thinks she has the right as any other in the area to speak her mind, as if she's in her own home, to anyone she comes across including a man, and when the man takes offense, she cries foul and suddenly her "protector" appears to keep the free woman under his protection out of a collar or even death, by bringing out his weapons to spar to either one is down for the count, or dead. In the end, the free woman is able to leave and nothing untoward happens to her. That is not Gor, that is watered down Gor, or as some have said it better, "Almost Gor", and that makes the free women who know their places and do as they are supposed to do, and say look bad, because we are all painted as slut in robes or leathers.

That is the one thing that makes my skin crawl, to hear such said, but I do know that at any point of time a man of my home can decide to place steel about my throat and pronounce me a slave, because that is what we are in essence. During the time we grow up, we have to learn not only the basic things to survive in a wagon camp, and the other part of our education is that we are taught how to please a man, to cook, clean, whatever it takes to make a man happy, either as a companion or as a slave. It is simple, we are women, we are given the right to be free as a man deems we should be, though we are respected at times for our words, we are also respected for those times when we know to stay silent and let the men talk amongst themselves. And again, I digress, you asked for an opinion about the freedom of a FW from place to place, and I am going off on a tangent.

My second paragraph is an example what I have seen going on outside of our home, through messages I have been sent by Aeryon, and my thoughts and opinions are simple, that yes, manipulation of a man is very much accomplished outside of MTC, but it also does exist in MTC.

As you said, Raziel, you have struck many a free woman in camp for reasons that you saw them trying to make themselves even with the men of camp. I have been guilty of such as well, but I learned my lesson that night and for the 30 days I held that collar that could have easily gone around my throat instead of it being held by me. In the past, we have had women who thought that since they had that lime green bead on their golden nose ring, think that they are at par with the men in camp, to a point they are, they have been given the privilege of being on council, their words are valued as are their opinions, but there are some that have taken that honor and turned it around to do whatever they wish, with the thought that they are above the free men in camp, including the Ubar. I have seen the end result of this happening, which is never pretty to witness, but in a way, and it might seem a bit odd to some, refreshing to see it happen and the end result.

Now there are those who aren't of council, but are just members of the home, who at times forget that there are things that they are responsible for, but would rather spend time with their friends and ignore things going on around them, resulting in undesirable effects in the end. Then there are those FW who are told to do something by a FM and within moments, they are off doing something else, as if they don't have to do what the FM said. I consider this a way of manipulation by a FW to a FM, and this is not acceptable. If they haven't been long in camp, and have come from a home that has allowed them to get away with anything, and then come to this camp and expect the same to happen, they are shown quickly that that is not the case. The Ubar is the law of Tuchuk, what he says goes, no questions allowed to be asked, unless they are to clarify the order, but not to try and change that order to fit the way they would like it to happen. If a FM of camp gives out an order, again they may question to clarify, if the FM is of Council, but they may question the reason behind the order, if done in the correct manner, asking if it was passed down from one from Council, or was it something that he thought might be useful to help get things going a bit quicker.

I have been asked before in the past, to help set up the serving carts when we have had many guests in camp for either a festival or just a lot of visitors and guests who have come to our home to visit. As a woman, that is one of my duties to camp, to help serve if there is a need, such as all the slaves and thralls are working to get things for the visitors and guests. Even if there are not that many in camp, but all the slaves are in service to others, I will get up and offer to get something for the guests or visitors. I have seen many FW of our home, as well as those outside of it, expect to sit back and do nothing, while the slaves work their asses off and barely have time to get something to eat or drink themselves. We are FW, unless our legs are broken or we have a medical reason for not doing anything more than to rest and relax, we should be doing more for the men of our home. This is another bit of manipulation, at least in my eyes, the FW expect to only do what they have to do, that's not right, and I will say that lately I have been guilty of doing such as well.

I may have rambled a bit here and there, but this is my opinion of what I have seen past and present of the manipulation of FM outside and inside of MTC. Our home has gotten better about this, but there are still times that I see this happening recently. But I think I got it all covered and will end it here.

I know this has taken me a bit of time to get to, but things lately have been a bit scattered and out of whack, but I will get to the others when I can, but I will get to them.